Are Nintendo games really shallow and for kids?

Jack Lovejoy

Jack Lovejoy

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From
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I have been hearing that Nintendo is only for the kiddie audience and their games are shallow shovelware that lack depth. Is this true? The answer is a HUGE FUCKING NO FOR CRYING OUT LOUD.

I mean, sure Mario, Kirby, Animal Crossing, and pokemon are kiddie, but THOSE ARE THE ONLY ONES DIRECTED TOWARDS KIDS. Take a look at other nintendo 1st party games: Metroid, Half of the Zelda Games, Kid Icarus, Xenoblade, Fire Emblem, Star Fox, and hell even Mother. Those game series are not directly aimed towards children and they are aimed at a more mature audience. I think the reason why people make this misconception is because those franchises are the most recognizable and the others are left in the dust. But seriously, before you say "All Nintendo games are kid trash" get your head examined and take those franchises into consideration. I am so goddamn tired of hearing this bullcrap over and over again.

Now lets see, are Nintendo lacking in depth? NO AGAIN. People may think that just because Mario looks simple, it is a shallow experience. Well guess what, THERE IS MUCH MORE TO MARIO THAN LOOKS. He has a variety of enemies that have different skills and weaknesses and you have a plethora of options and attacks to kill them via power ups or your own skills. There is also secrets to collect, collectibles, checkpoints, level design to accomodate to these skills, hidden areas to explore, etc. So ask me again then: WHAT IS MARIO LACKING FROM OTHER PLATFORMERS?

[Idiot on the internet]: Uh, Mario always has the same story of rescuing Princess Peach from a turtle, retard. lol

Alright then, so Mario lacks a story.... So what?! Why do we all act like the story matters in a video game? They are not movies for crying out loud, a game doesnt need a story, simple as that. Also, to those people who say "Mario feels the same every game" MARIO WAS NOT THE SAME ALL THE TIME. Starting in Super Mario 64, he left the traditional 3d mario formula and became a 3d mission based platformer with different challenges and even hub worlds to explore. They add subtle changes to the formula like adding new mechanics like FLUDD and the planetoids in Super Mario Galaxy.

Another thing people say is that Zelda lacks in depth... That makes me feel outright insulted, because again WHAT DOES ZELDA LACK FROM OTHER PUZZLE GAMES?! They have half decent stories, usage of items in a dungeon, etc, WHAT EVERY PUZZLE DUNGEON GAME HAS GODDAMMIT.

And we go on with the bullshit about other Nintendo games being bad because of those reasons. Aye Aye Aye.... You people out there need to grow the fuck up. PLAY THE GAMES YOURSELVES BEFORE YOU JUDGE.
 
@Jack Lovejoy Amen brother. It appears you may have been reading those "Nintendo's Doom" articles from yahoo. Here I got ya back:

Mario basically invented the platformer, meaning it has been going on for over 30 years. What else on Earth lasts for 30 years besides Home Loans? And why? Because of said subtle changes that may be good bad or unpopular but have kept the experience fresh. These small changes keep us old-timers in line waiting for the new games, all the while hooking in the younger players. It's brilliance, which brings me to

Pokemon Go: Look out your window right now. Is it a bunch of 8 year olds running around with their phones? Nope it's probably 4 college age kids, or (like me) dad, mom and a child. So again we have the nostalgia factored in with a way to hook younger players. There is the next 20 years of Pokemon player. I myself have never played a true Pokemon but guess what's next up for my 3ds.

Zelda: Oh my beloved. I am 36 and have tattoos, toys, t-shirts, pez dispensers, books of this franchise. You name it. Here is a franchise that I've bought every game, some twice to experience in HD or on a different platform. Maybe its not these big movie epics people get for Sony or Xbox but i really wouldn't know. It's a game that has brought tears to my eyes but doesn't even talk. The music is so beautiful and is used in cut scenes to really bring out the emotion of a situation. Colin realizing Link is a hero after his rescue is a great example. This is called ART. Yes there are a few shortcomings and no i didn't love every single title but they mean a lot to me.

Not to drag on but two deceiving titles from wii u is Splatoon and Yoshi's Woolley World. They look silly and kiddy don't they, what with all that color. If you are playing against some experienced battlers in Splatoon and take it lightly you are in for a rough match. There is some serious strategy involved in this game. And Woolley World is another game i got to play with my daughter that turned into something i had to 100% myself because it was so fun to play, explore and find all the goodies. Lots of fun to be had.

I learned my lesson years ago. Do not assume anything from Nintendo is just for kids or adults. Wii Bowling anyone?
 
I feel like I should keep my mouth shut because I don't feel like arguing, losing friends, breaking rules, etc. but...

Yes Nintendo games are immature knockoffs. They also make you more kiddy as well. As an example, I got so brainwashed by Nintendo, that I almost boycotted violent games. Whereas violent games are really good for getting your frustrations out. Xenoblade X was the best game on the Wii U, but it still had many weird, sucky mechanics. I now only care about XBox One and PS4. I almost care about that new NES Classic console, because it contains Nintendo games that weren't rushed, but I still won't be buying one.

I hope I haven't offended anyone to the point that they will run me out of this forum, as I only plan on bringing the issue up on threads which call for these opinions, like this one. And I will still help people out on this forum where I can, and not be a complete troll.
 
I've been gaming since the mid 1980's. If you think Nintendo games are kiddie then you should try them out for yourself. You won't get far with the old Nintendo games.. kid gamers today can't handle the 3 lives only or the one hit and you are dead games. Look at Platoon for the NES. That game is hard has fuck or Ghost & goblin's for the NES/SNEs. these kids today on there xbox can't get past the first screen. Because 90% of the kids like the easy games. Games like COD,GTA, Halo are for whimps.. Try out the old Nintendo Arcade games like Space Launcher, HeliFire, Radar Scope, the Original Donkey Kong. You only say it's kiddie because you suck at those games and you want to play the easy ones. OG (Orignal Gamer) remember, without Pole Postions there wouldn't of been Need For Speed, With out Gauntlet there wouldn't be Warcraft, So put away your Assassin's Creed and let's break out some Millipede. It's not the hate for the player or the hate for the game, You just hate the high scores that are next to my name. OG
 
Shane said:
I feel like I should keep my mouth shut because I don't feel like arguing, losing friends, breaking rules, etc. but...

Yes Nintendo games are immature knockoffs. They also make you more kiddy as well. As an example, I got so brainwashed by Nintendo, that I almost boycotted violent games. Whereas violent games are really good for getting your frustrations out. Xenoblade X was the best game on the Wii U, but it still had many weird, sucky mechanics. I now only care about XBox One and PS4. I almost care about that new NES Classic console, because it contains Nintendo games that weren't rushed, but I still won't be buying one.

I hope I haven't offended anyone to the point that they will run me out of this forum, as I only plan on bringing the issue up on threads which call for these opinions, like this one. And I will still help people out on this forum where I can, and not be a complete troll.
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you are amongst friends and your opinion is highly respected. i wish i had the other consoles so i could see what I'm missing out on. No regrets though i just miss my wrestling games.
 
Thanks.

My last relationship that I have told you about, she wanted me to grow up, so I stopped playing Nintendo and started playing XBox One. The sad part is, I started to realize I liked XBox One better. If it wasn't for certain violent games on XBox One, I would not have made it. I might change my mind some day, but right now, I don't really plan on getting a NX.

I'm not sure what to say for myself, but maybe a few months of therapy might make me come around and happen to like Nintendo for some reason. Maybe not. I'm not going to burn bridges over it though.
 
@Shane at 36 with the world going to hell around us i think that Nintendo has become my therapy. I went from watching news a lot back to watching cartoons and The 3 Stooges. These things make more sense to me than politic crap and all the hate in the world. Yesterday i took my daughter for a ride so we could catch Pokemon Go stops and for awhile nothing mattered in the world. I wouldn't trade that time for anything. I guess the point is we do what makes us happy and feel accepted and its different for everybody no matter how it seems to people who don't get us.
 
No. It's fucking retarded to think so as well. Someone who does lacks as much understanding about games as a 6 year old describing the human anatomy. They are the most well crafted games ever made. They have a lot of core game design that goes deeper than something that IS hollow pretending to be deep with game design like Uncharted or The Last of Us. Nintendo implements a lot of subtle touches with purpose to each game. They would not make a world huge unless you had the means to explore or travel it more quickly and with purpose as to why it exists. La Noire was big for the sake of it(tho I liked the game). Many but not all Nintendo games maybe easy to pick up and play but that's far from shallow. Mobile games are often shallow. Call of Duty is shallow from the surface to the core. Most AAA games are shallow. Also it's kinda broad to just say Nintendo games isn't it? Do you mean Mario or Xenoblade Chronicles X which is a very complex game. Earthbound is simple to play but a deep game. Fire Emblem is anything but simple. Only Nintendo game they published I can think of recently that is truly shallow is Devil's Third.

Let's take Mario for example. The most simple to play IP they have. When you completed Super Mario World did you go meh...what's next..or did you feel a sense of accomplishment? Most would say the latter and that is your answer.
 
I think I can refute Segata's argument by saying that most new Mario games are pretty shallow. Tell me that you will be fine with Mario 3D World and that new Mario Tennis and Toad Treasure Tracker for the rest of your life. He can argue that SNES Nintendo games are good, but it's more like, a lot of games from that era were good.
 
3D world is a fantastic game. Toad Treasure Tracker is a great game. Yeah they are fantastic and very satisfying to play. Toad is esp well crafted as it's subtle but extremely clever. When 3D world came out I was shouting from the mountain tops they need to make a full game of the Toad levels and suspected they might and sure enough they did. 3D world is my fave 3D Mario since 64.
 
Okay, but my brother in law, who owns a Wii U and doesn't hate it, has agreed with me in the past that both games were boring.

I think we really need to create a fully objective, universal definition that 90 percent of the forum agrees on, on what is good game design. Then we can determine what games are best pretty easily and with less argument.
 
"Okay, but my brother in law, who owns a Wii U and doesn't hate it, has agreed with me in the past that both games were boring."

So? opinion is irrelevant when something is designed well. Despite my last post personal taste is irrelevant. You can have all the opinions about them all you guys want but opinion is not something to hide behind when wrong. They are well designed games whether you and your brother or your mom or your cousins barbers doctor don't like it. You're free to not like a game as that is just taste. It's like women. I like Alyson Hannigan and celeb most attracted to. Someone else would say theirs is Margot Robbie. I'm not that into her but I can't say she's not a beautiful woman. In a measurable sense Margot is a more beautiful woman but personal taste says more attracted to Alyson.
 
Okay. Try not to change the subject completely, as I also implied a question: What is good, objective Game Design?
 
To me, it's important that we establish an objective view or right answer on games and what is good, because otherwise we will just be arguing silly opinions. In such a case of the latter, the only objective truth is what's contained in people's personal opinions of games. And that's not fun at all. Like I could say in such a case, that more people enjoy so and so Call of Duty game and to a greater degree, therefore it's better than so and so Mario. I personally don't believe that, but the burden of proof on what makes a game good is still on you, not me, because you asserted that opinions aren't objective fact.
 
It's not that simple to just post a full explanation of game design. All I will say is the most basic understanding I will give you is layers. A different colored layer for each stage that in the end complete a picture. In film there is something called a diffuse pass.I have a series on my channel on some of this stuff. So far just RPGs but can still give you idea. Not narrated by me but a AAA game developer. When he has time he wants to delve in other genres. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLV0YSB_Db19HqYxFRSXtWOY8Ye0WhL4oN

This pic is not meaning to be literal to game design but a metaphor for how layers must come together in all stages of a game music level design narrative mechanics and more must align. Yes even Mario has narrative of characters and overarching of the game itself.
CWptl5A.jpg


There is another way to help understanding this same idea with Tic Tac Toe.
 
I think this thread is actually somewhat successful for two reasons:

1. Segata started to post about Game Design, a subject that will probably interest the readers.

2. My own arguing with Segata has caused me to rethink my stance on Nintendo games and want to play them again. Here is what I believe. There is Conservative Game Design and Progressive, Rule Breaking Game Design. Nintendo is masters of keeping things good and solid. BUT the new way of Game Design is to break the rules, usually in good ways, and pull it off. And that's what I kind of prefer, since I'm tired of the same.
 
To be fair they changed how 2D and 3D games are developed with NES and N64. Tho yes at times Nintendo has gone down a safe route like with Gamecube games. XCX expands on open world design that BoTW is taking much further with the vertical aspect. They have also invented genres like Kart Racing and created a unique fighting game series with Smash with many clones of smash and all are terrible. No denying they can stick to a proven formula. Nintendo has developed many trans-formative games and genres as well. It's how the company works from hardware to software and overall goal to expand and change how we play games. Splatoon has changed online shooters. Nintendo always has and always will be like this. It's good for the industry that is so ever reliant on remasters and reboots and using a tired old formulas in AAA games that also nickel and dime you to death. Sex and blood and violence in itself is immature. If there is a mature theme to it like Berserk or Ghost in the Shell or Megaten then cool. Mature can be colorful as well like Splatoon. Rated mature and actually being mature not the same thing lol.
 
I think Nintendo sincerely believes that their games have a significant influence on their players and so are attempting to encourage good behavior. With the Pokewalker, Wii Fit, and now Pokemon Go it is clear Nintendo has been trying to heavily encourage gamers to get outside and exercise more. They have been attempting to foster positive communities and cooperation - which is partially why they still doing have voice chat in online games and have such an emphasis on local multiplayer. Nearly all of their games can be played as a family - either as siblings vs parents or as kids watching their parents play a game (or vice versa). Nearly every single game I can easily play even if there are children in the room. I couldn't play Assassin's Creed or Call of Duty with my little kids hanging around, but I can easily play Zelda or Splatoon. And I can let my kids play those games without worrying about them getting a little disturbed.

Nintendo has no interest in only selling what gamers demand - other companies are doing that and their consumers are getting increasingly spoiled. Nintendo seems to be taking on the role of a third parent or something and is trying to bring out the best in us. They are not interested in encouraging greedy greedy children who want to buy generic shooters with irrelevantly high graphics that let them scream obscenities at strangers.

That's partially why Pokemon Go has been such a hit. It gets people outside and walking, and gives them something to do while walking. It gets people meeting and collaborating/competing with other people and communicating. Before Pokemon Go everyone was at home on the couch with a bag of chips beside them, and immediately after we have hordes of people out walking and talking for maybe the first time in a long while.

Nintendo is not in the gaming business to make money. They are in the gaming business to create an integral part of everyone's lifestyle.
 
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